We Need to Talk About Dating with a Disability – with Dateability App Founders

Karina Sturm: Welcome to the Global Disability News Network podcast, powered by GADI, the Global Alliance for Disability in Media and Entertainment. We are a disabled-led, accessible multimedia platform where disability isn't a side note. It's the lens. We report on how systems, culture, and everyday life affect disabled people around the world, while centering lived experience and disabled perspectives. I'm Karina Sturm, News Director of the Global Disability News Network and your co-host, and with me is co-host and fellow journalist Amy Zayed.

Amy Zayed: Hello.

Karina Sturm: Today we're talking about dating, disability access, and the complicated question of what inclusion really means in the dating world. We are joined by Jacqueline and Alexa Child, the founders of Dateability, a dating app created for disabled and chronically ill people. Welcome.

Jacqueline Child: Thanks so much for having us.

Karina Sturm: We are very happy you're here, and I know Amy has lots of questions about dating.

Amy Zayed: It's only because I just said I didn't have a relationship for so long. I can't even remember when it was.

Jacqueline Child: You can relate.

Amy Zayed: But how did it all start? Because I'm really interested in, I'll tell you later why, but I'm really interested in, how did the idea start? Where did you get the idea from to do this?

Alexa Child: First, I don't want to interrupt, but do you want us to describe ourselves physically for you, Amy, and the viewers?

Amy Zayed: If you like. Yeah. Maybe there are other blind people out there like myself, and they want to know.

Alexa Child: So I'm Alexa. I am 36 years old. I'm a white female with brown, curly hair, wearing a denim shirt.

Jacqueline Child: And I'm Jacqueline. I am in my early thirties. I am a white female with brown hair and brown eyes, and I'm wearing a navy and white striped shirt.

Alexa Child: And then, Jacqueline, do you want to start on how we got started?

Jacqueline Child: Yeah. The story starts out very personally. So I am disabled due to chronic illness, and I became disabled when I was a young teenager. And once I started to mature and become an adult, I realized just how society views disabled people, and particularly in the dating space. I found that it was really hard to find a place where, and find people where, I could be just myself, my authentic self, and accepted for who I am. And so I would join these mainstream dating apps, and I would almost immediately get ghosted or rejected at any mention of disability. And then when I did connect with someone and start a relationship with them, my disability always got in the way. People were telling me I was a burden, or it was too stressful to date me, or that this wasn't what they pictured for their life. And so obviously that really affected my self-esteem. And it really makes you feel unlovable and unworthy of a good, healthy relationship. And I just wanted to find a place where I could meet people who had similar experiences. And that didn't exist. And so in 2021, Alexa and I decided that we would take the plunge and create the space that I was looking for, and that I have come to realize that a lot of people like me were looking for.

Amy Zayed: And what is now the difference between that and a normal dating app, where, apart from the fact that it's for mostly disabled people?

Alexa Child: Yeah. That's the biggest difference, right? When you sign on to Dateability, you expect the majority of users to either have a disability or a chronic illness. Although we do welcome and encourage non-disabled allies and advocates and people who want to really amplify our mission to join. But the other differences are in the way the app is set up. So we pay close attention to accessibility features. It's a steep learning curve, but we've really, really tried to perfect the screen reader functionality. We have color contrast, image descriptions for every photo that we strongly encourage our users to fill out. We have a web browser version, so that if somebody can't use their mobile device, they're able to access it from the desktop. We also have the Dateability Deets section, and that solves, or helps solve, the issue of disclosure. So for Jacqueline, when to disclose, how to disclose, and what the reaction would be when she disclosed caused a lot of anxiety, and so we created the Dateability Deets section to go on a user's profile. It's completely optional. It doesn't contain any diagnoses or private health information. It's just more broad terms like amputee, immunocompromised, wheelchair user, and the user can select what applies to them. There's also a type-in option, and that just shows up under your basic information. And so it gives other users just a little preview into what your circumstances might be, what your accommodations might be. Makes it easier to plan a date too, makes it easier to connect maybe on some common ground. And that's also our biggest difference.

Karina Sturm: And when you say there are no categories or no diagnosis, which, by the way, I love, because otherwise people always ask like, what's your disability and why are you in a wheelchair and whatever. But what if I particularly really want to date somebody else with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome? Which I don't, but just the general, what if I wanted to? It just has to be somebody with the same condition.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah, that might be a little difficult to actually compute for Dateability, but we do have the option of searching by Dateability Deets, and so our premium users can search by chronic illness or chronic pain, chronic fatigue. So those people will show up, and it's broad. So yes, there's people with EDS who will show up, but there's also people with rheumatoid arthritis who will show up under that.

Karina Sturm: Close enough.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah.

Karina Sturm: Or I could just pick all of them. I feel like the more categories I pick, the closer I come to somebody with EDS.

Jacqueline Child: Yes. Chronic illness is so diverse and intersectional that you could be EDS and you can also have autism. You could have EDS and you could also be blind. So there's just, it is so intersectional.

Karina Sturm: Yeah, I feel like I probably wouldn't want to date anyone that's even close to my disability, because that just creates even more issues. I would probably date Amy instead.

Amy Zayed: I'm happy to date you. I'd be happy to date you. It's fine. Absolutely. If I were into girls, you'd be my match. Absolutely. I love it. No, but did you ever do online dating yourself? Karina, do you have any experience with online dating?

Karina Sturm: No. Funnily, I really never tried any online app. I have no experience with online dating whatsoever, because, as always, I kind of stumbled into relationships through either friendship or a common hobby like playing volleyball. But that was also before I became sick, basically, so it was very simple to find a partner when I was still healthy, because I could just go to sports and I would meet people. I could do so many things that I can't really do now. And I think that was how I never really needed to do online dating, but I do see how it's super, super important for disabled people to have this kind of opportunity to date, and to not be discriminated, hopefully.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah, and that's exactly what we're trying to recreate. You said that you would go to your sporting events or activities and meet people. That's what we want. We want to create that commonality, that people gather to a community because there is something specific, and something that they can relate to. And I think community-specific dating apps, whether it's for disability or for politics or religion, that really is the future, because I think that our generation really values all of those common values, and it's easier to find on a place where you go out and put those out there.

Alexa Child: I think you're underestimating the diversity of an online community though, because there are people who will only date, like if they're Catholic, they will only date a Catholic. And not because their parents are telling them to, but because they only want that. Just like I wouldn't date somebody who is Catholic because I'm not religious, or I wouldn't date anyone who voted for Trump. That's a hard one.

Amy Zayed: Neither would I. This would be, yeah, I think that would be, probably...

Alexa Child: No, but dating apps for people who are MAGA, like, I'm never going to join those. But in Dateability, among Dateability's users, we have people of all religions, of all political beliefs, which still sort of blows my mind, because the disability policies are so tied up. It is political, and disability rights. But so many different backgrounds, that you can find what you're looking for. And I also think that the physical world is so inaccessible to people with disabilities, especially after COVID, that we're making it easier to find love. There's so many people who are wheelchair users who just can't go to a rooftop bar and meet somebody, because they can't get up there. There's just no way there. It requires stairs. Or if you're immunocompromised, you can't just walk into a concert anymore that's indoors and not be afraid of catching COVID or whatever virus is circulating, which seems like every day there's a new one. And so we're trying to make it more accessible, so we're really trying to recreate that in-person dating that I know very well. All of my former partners I've met in person, I've never met anyone online, but we're trying to bring that into the digital world.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah. And when you're saying that about your parents, so yeah, we try to create this very diverse community, and diverse in a sense of disability, because, Karina, you have EDS, I also have EDS, and I bet our experiences have similarities but also have pretty big differences too. And so it is an important reminder to look at the differences when you're dating, because I think that you can find a lot of commonality in those differences, if that makes sense. And a lot of room for growth.

Karina Sturm: I think..

Amy Zayed: What about you, Karina? Sorry, I wanted to ask you, I wanted to ask, what about you? Because I wanted to know, because you haven't told me.

Karina Sturm: I like the argument between you guys, because I think this is one of the most debated question in the community, whether having a specific app for disabled dating is separation or inclusion, or kind of both at the same time. And I see both sides, because, honestly, I would love to, especially a couple of years ago, to have a safe space where I feel seen and understood without constantly having to explain myself. And I see your app would probably provide that. But at the same time, I feel like people with disabilities should be able to go to rooftop bars. It's not your responsibility to create a space for them. It's literally governments' and whatever's responsibility to make it accessible so that we can date like anyone else. So honestly, I don't have a clear opinion.

Jacqueline Child: I mean, if we... if there wasn't a need, we wouldn't have made this.

Alexa Child: The important thing is that people can be, and often are, on multiple dating platforms at once, so you can be on Dateability and Hinge and Bumble and Tinder, and whichever works out for you, great. But I get the separate-but-inclusive thing, and that's why we allow non-disabled people to join, right? Because if you aren't disabled but you have no problems dating a disabled person, which you shouldn't, but there's a lot of stigma and bias out there, then join Dateability. But like I said, I would never date somebody who voted for Trump, and I would be happy to be on a dating app that was separate from them. And I think that all disabled people would be happy to be separate from people who discriminate against those with disability. So I think that's more our narrative.

Karina Sturm: I totally see that. The only thing that kind of bothers me, not about your app, I love your app, I love what you guys are doing, this is not a criticism about your work at all, but I always feel like, if we don't actually show non-disabled people we are here and we exist, we don't really fight the ableism, because all the stigma is going to be there anyways, and somebody needs to show these assholes that they can treat us like that.

Amy Zayed: Absolutely.

Karina Sturm: And I think that only works if you actually throw disabled people into other dating apps. And yeah, unfortunately this probably also includes making some really shitty experiences with ableism, in the end. So yeah.

Alexa Child: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, disabled people and media representation, and that's why we have a lot of press out here in the United States, like mainstream press, Forbes, People Magazine, Washington Post. And so we're trying to talk about disability and intimacy and normalize it, so that the non-disabled readers read our story and realize, and then kind of try to reduce those stigmas. But I agree. Luckily, disabled people will always be on those other apps, and then luckily for them, they will have some shitty experiences. I mean, get rid of the stigma on a societal level, I don't know what it would take to change. My God, everything seems so polarized, between every minority and every faction and every interest group, especially here in the United States right now. But I would love to see the day where, just like, Dateability is no longer needed, because people are actually kind.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah, we see every type of person on the app. And it's really interesting from a sociological viewpoint, because disability doesn't necessarily make you one way or another. It is just another part of us. And yes, a lot of us have learned a lot from our disabilities and that has shaped us, but for some people it hasn't, and it's just another part of them, like their hair color or where they're from. And we see so much diversity within the disabilities with our users, like psychiatric disabilities, and people who consider themselves disabled due to depression. But then there's other people with depression who wouldn't consider themselves disabled. And so all of that is really interesting to look at.

Karina Sturm: You know what's also very interesting, there's a huge difference between dating when you have a visible disability versus an invisible one, right? Because I feel like I probably wouldn't face as much ableism at first, at least, because I would be able to walk into a date and none of my disabilities is visible if I don't make it visible. Some days I use a wheelchair, then obviously it is, but I could also force myself to actually walk those stairs and walk in there, and I would be in pain, fine, but I could hide that. And then you come into this awkward situation where you date, and everything might be fine, right? But you're not stating you're disabled, and you're looking for this weird moment when you could come out and actually say, "Hey, by the way, hope you don't mind." And then it's a very scary moment, because you don't know how that person reacts to it. And then on the other hand, when you have a visible disability, you know immediately if that person is an asshole or not. But it's just as scary. I don't really know, but I can imagine. How was that for you guys?

Jacqueline Child: Yeah, we've heard it from both sides. And from what we've been told is that there are pros and cons to both, like there is, like in everything in life. Disclosing your disability is really nerve-wracking for everyone, whether it's visible or invisible. We've had people who have come to us and said, "I am a full-time wheelchair user, and on the other apps I've only included pictures of my face and completely cropped out any other photos." And so we've had people who feel like they need to hide their visible disability on their profile just to get the date. And then people who are like, "Oh yeah, if they're not going to swipe on me, then that's okay." And for me, I also have invisible disabilities, and so I did have that privilege of hiding it, but I always felt like it was at the tip of my tongue, and that it was going to come out, and that so many of my experiences have been influenced and affected by my disability, that I was so scared for when it revealed itself. And people asking about my hobbies, and if I've been here, and if I do this, I could relate it back to my disability, but I felt like I should just either have a different answer or keep that part to myself. And so I think that has been the most transformational thing for our users, that you can come onto the platform and you don't have to worry about that. It can be visible, it can be invisible. You can disclose your specific diagnoses right away if you would like. And that is just the expectation when you join our platform.

Amy Zayed: I think for me it was always, as someone with a visible disability, I've never been on online platforms, as I just said, but even on my Instagram profile, I talk about it a lot. I never had problems, because it was always there. I was born blind, so it was not something that I could choose whether to hide or not. It was there. But what I kind of, back in the day when there was no online dating, I remember when I was a teenager, I think the first time I really asked the question of how do I deal with disclosing or not, how they see my disability, was when I was like 16, and I was out with my best friend. It's like being into an old woman.

And I laughed. The guy was, I wasn't into him, so it didn't hurt my, the thing is, my big advantage is that it's really hard to hurt my feelings. I'm just not hurt. I'm hurt by someone that I like or someone I love. If I were in love with this person, then it would have been different, but because I wasn't, I laughed, and we took the guy, we took my friend, and I really did, poor boy, we really pulled his leg for the rest of the night. He went home and we were laughing at him. But we went home and had a glass of wine, and we were thinking, or she had more a glass of wine, and we were thinking, "Bloody hell, if I were in love with this man, it probably would have destroyed the rest of my life," thinking that it's really hard for me to find someone. In a way I was lucky, but that was the first time that I really thought about this idea, or thought about someone having a problem with my disability. But that made me harder. It made me tougher in the way that I looked out for people, and I think that happens to a lot of disabled people.

Alexa Child: I mean, yeah. It's also really interesting, because I feel like the discrimination's there, and then it also seems like the people who discriminate against people with disabilities have no problem verbalizing that, either. It's just the craziest things. You think that that's okay to say to somebody? What makes you think that's okay? You can just keep that thought to yourself.

And break up with the person or not go on a date with the person. Everybody else would.

Jacqueline Child: I remember I was telling one of Alexa's friends that a guy that I was dating told me that his friend said that they were surprised that he would ever date someone like me. And I was shocked by the comment, obviously. And Alexa's friends were shocked by the fact that he told me what his friend said. And I was like, "That's a really good point. Why are you telling me what your friend said?" And another guy I was dating, his mom told him that he should break things off with me, because it would be a burden and his life would be miserable. And he was completely fine telling me those things. And in the end, it made me tougher, and it gave me some thick skin, but it still, it was absolutely devastating to go through. And something that we just don't want, we don't want people to have to repeatedly go through that if they don't have to.

Amy Zayed: But don't you think that we need that? Especially if we're dating that person. If we're not, then it's not really important. But yes, I would like to know if the parents of my partner don't like me because of my disability, or their friends, because I'd treat them differently. I would want to know the truth.

Alexa Child: Well, this guy that Jacqueline's talking about decided he also didn't like her, because his parents didn't like her, because,

Amy Zayed: Yeah. Ah, okay. In that case,

Then please sod off.

And leave me alone.

Alexa Child: I mean, I've dated guys that my parents didn't particularly approve of. I did not tell them. I figured that would come up if and when we get married, and I would hope that by then my parents would come to like the person. I just didn't think it was worth hurting this person, that person that I cared about, their feelings, when we're in the early stages of dating, when I still liked them. I don't care what my parents think. So yeah, this one was, "Oh, my parents don't think I should date you because you're disabled, and I agree with them now, so see ya."

Amy Zayed: And so yeah, then sod off. We don't need you anyway. We don't need that. You're a waste of my time anyway. Thank you very much. Tears.

Jacqueline Child: But I do think you're right, in the fact that, for the other guy whose friends said they were surprised that he would date someone like me, it is important to know the company that your partner keeps, and the values that your partner's friends hold. It's just, yeah, I think delivery is important. And I think that as long as we're working to change the attitude and the misconceptions about disability, those statements can change. If the guy at the party when you were 16 was more educated on disability, maybe he wouldn't have said that. Who knows. It's hard for a 16-year-old, because their brains really aren't developed. But yeah.

Karina Sturm: You know what we really should,

Jacqueline Child: I love that. See, everyone can hurt me. I get hurt by a keyboard warrior. I get hurt when it's not even directed towards me. So, oh my God. Maybe somewhere in the middle.

Karina Sturm: You know what we all should be doing at some point, I've been thinking about that for a while, we literally should just go up to random non-disabled people and ask them how their vaginas or penises work.

Alexa Child: Wonderful idea.

Karina Sturm: Really. Because, just like you said, I've always been wondering how it's totally acceptable for a random person to walk up to my friends in wheelchairs and be like, "Hey, does this work down there?" Would you ever ask anyone in any culture on the globe that's non-disabled the same kind of question? You never would.

Alexa Child: No.

Amy Zayed: Believe you me, they do ask blind people the same. On the train, five minutes on the train, this guy is like, "How does a blind woman have sex?"

Jacqueline Child: Oh my God. 

Karina Sturm: What?

Amy Zayed: You know, I looked at Ava and I said, "Well, one, how do you have sex? Two, you'll probably never find out." That was my answer.

Alexa Child: You're right. Yeah, the things that people say and the audacity is really baffling. And I think for me, I have thicker skin, and it takes a lot for somebody to hurt my feelings. So for me, when people say things like that, I'm not disabled, if they were to say that to me, or if they say that to Jacqueline, it's more, less hurt and more like, "What makes you think it's okay to say those things?" Like, there's a screw missing or loose up there. And how do you treat other people who are disabled that you don't know? Are you that person that goes up to somebody who's a wheelchair user and asks them how they have sex? I don't know. That's embarrassing if you are. And so for me, I'm more like, social cues. You don't understand social cues, and it's less about the emotional effect of their statement and more like the logical. It's just bizarre to me, and I'm like, you're embarrassing.

Karina Sturm: So, now we spoke a lot about our experiences in terms of shitty dating experiences. But disabled people sometimes are also a little more vulnerable in terms of dating, and I assume that's also something that can happen in an app, even though I've never online dated. But how do you keep all of your people safe in the app, and make sure nobody bothers somebody else with any weird fetishes and whatever?

Jacqueline Child: Yeah. The internet opens its doors to a lot of strange and nefarious activity. And I do think it's up to the platforms to keep their users safe. And then, to a certain extent, there is a limit, because if you're going to maintain user privacy and allow people to express themselves, so we really try to find that balance. And so we have developed various security measures where we moderate the content that's publicly posted on Dateability. And then, if a report comes in, we can do further investigation for that. We encourage people to report and to block people that they feel are suspicious, or they feel like are crossing their boundaries. But that doesn't necessarily require us to remove the person from the platform. Something that we were concerned about in the beginning are the people who fetishize disability and are devotees. And we understand that that is a complex and nuanced phenomenon, if there's consensual devotees and there's non-consensual devotees, and we have decided that, for the safety and comfort of our users, we're just going to prohibit any devotee behavior. And we've made that really clear in our marketing, in our acceptable use policies, and any sort of indication of that on someone's profile results in a ban. So we want Dateability to be a place where it isn't censored and it isn't PG, people can be themselves and you can express your wants, and we're all adults here. And so if something makes you feel uncomfortable, but that's just a personal thing, all you have to do is click X and you won't see them again. And so just trying to find that balance of expression and a safe and inviting environment.

Alexa Child: Yeah, we definitely use the objective standard when figuring out what's offensive. We got a report once from somebody who said that they find tattoos offensive. But the reasonable person objectively is not going to find tattoos offensive, unless those tattoos themselves are offensive, but tattoos in general. So for something like that, that person's not going to get banned from the app because they have tattoos. If they use a slur, though, on the other hand, where a reasonable person would find that offensive, whether it's directed at them or not, yes, then they'll get banned. We've done a really good job at preventing bots and spammers from joining the app. The hardest part, I think, is that not all disabled people are good people. Some of these people can commit a romance scam and they could still be disabled. And so,

Karina Sturm: No. Are you saying disabled people can be assholes? No way, no way.

Alexa Child: No way. So we just try to educate our users, the red flags to look out for. This person could be verified, which means they are who they say they are, but they could still be an asshole. And so you have to protect yourself at the end of the day. And that goes with in-person dating, online dating, everywhere. Anytime you meet somebody new or accept someone new into your life.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah.

Alexa Child: Stay safe while you're dating in person.

Jacqueline Child: And so yeah, the internet can be a really scary place, but it can also lead to a lot of good and a lot of success.

Karina Sturm: I'm curious about all of your experiences in terms of, let's do a rating, whether it's better to be in an inter-abled relationship or in a disabled relationship. If you want to. You obviously don't have to talk about anything private.

Jacqueline Child: Well, I've yet to date another disabled person, because, and now I am in a committed relationship with my career and haven't had time to date. But I truly think that finding someone who understands what my experiences are is going to be the foundation of a good relationship for me. And whether that means they are disabled themselves or they have a family member, I just think that, yeah, I truly think that I will end up with someone with a chronic illness, a disability, or something. And honestly, most people do end up with someone who has a disability, because we all age into disability if we're lucky enough to live long enough.

Alexa Child: I think I'm looking for the kindness, stability, empathy, compassion, ambition, all those things. And if I can find that within someone, I don't really care if they're disabled or not. That's, the bar's really high, especially with modern men. So we'll see.

Karina Sturm: Are you saying you both are single, right?

Alexa Child: Yes.

Karina Sturm: We're interested.

Amy Zayed: You should join Dateability, then.

Jacqueline Child: We're on it. I've got to manage my time a little better and make time for a relationship at some point.

Amy Zayed: Well, what about you? I've dated one person with an invisible disability, and he disclosed it to me after we'd been together for a year or so. I didn't know. And apart from that, so far I've only dated people without a disability, but that wasn't something that I planned.

Alexa Child: I mean, a year's a really long time to wait to disclose. And if I'm putting myself in your shoes, I wouldn't be like, "You're a liar," but I would wonder why it took you so long to trust me, to tell me something like that, after a year.

Amy Zayed: I told him exactly that. That was exactly what I said.

Alexa Child: For me, for a different reason, not because I wish I knew, but that I'd known and I would have never dated you more. You really think that I would have discriminated against you, and you didn't trust to tell me? A year is a really long time. That's a really long time. So I think, yeah, I think if you don't love yourself, you can never love anybody else appropriately. And so he clearly didn't, if he took that long to disclose, and it obviously wasn't right.

Amy Zayed: Absolutely, absolutely.

Alexa Child: To a point where you now love yourself enough that you are okay being single. You don't feel that desperation, and then when you find someone, it'll be on your terms and your standards, and it'll be good. But I do believe, if you don't love yourself, you will never be in a long enough.

Amy Zayed: Absolutely. Right.

Karina Sturm: But I feel like you just talked about internalized ableism quite a bit. When I got chronically ill, I don't even remember, many years ago, I felt like my relationship broke apart. All of a sudden I was single, I had no job, I literally lost everything that I kind of defined myself over. And then I was like, "Fuck, now I'm almost 30, I'm single, and I have nothing." And I felt like nobody's gonna ever love me again, and I felt like I really need to rush into a relationship and take whoever wants me, just to be with someone and be taken care of. And I didn't even realize what kind of messed-up thinking that was, and that I'm literally discriminating myself. It took me years to actually learn that. And I'm wondering how, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Alexa Child: It's all ableism, right? Okay, sorry, you can finish.

Karina Sturm: No, no.

Alexa Child: I'm done. We all have bias, and I think, biases against everything. We just do. It's really hard. I think having self-awareness about it is the first step, it's like admitting you have a problem, it's the first step to getting rid of that problem. And I do understand, logistically.

Jacqueline Child: I mean, my standards were so low, because...

Alexa Child: They were non-existent.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah. I was like, "Oh, you have a little bit of interest in me? Okay, I'm gonna lock that down, because I don't know when the next person's gonna like me," or, "This is the best I can get." And so I have really worked hard on having those standards and being okay in my own body, and just accepting my body for what it is, and then therefore accepting someone else's body for what it is. And it's been really cool to see people on Dateability be able to have those standards and be able to be picky. We're not saying everyone's gonna like all of the users who match their preferences, but you can have the same experience as someone else is having on a different dating app. You can decide if you're attracted to them and you can like them, or if you don't like their bio, you could swipe left on them. And so it's just giving disabled people this freedom and this equity that I feel like I didn't have before.

Karina Sturm: One thing I want to throw in, when this person said she would never date somebody with chronic pain, I don't know where it came from, whether it was internalized ableism or not, but one thing I can say, for certain symptoms, particularly pain, for instance, I would definitely also find it hard to date a person with exactly the same symptoms. Not because I think it's bad to have chronic pain or be chronically ill, but pain does something to me sometimes, where I get very grumpy and I'm not a nice person to be around. And I feel like if there's another person that has the same kind of chronic pain at the exact same time, we might not like each other much during that time. Because if you date a person with a disability, it comes with a lot of advantages. I've dated both non-disabled and disabled people, and I didn't really choose, it was just an accident, a coincidence. And when you date somebody who's also disabled, obviously they often have more empathy, and there's many, many benefits. But one thing that's definitely a challenge is that all of the things that you are facing as a disabled person, like insurance shit and all the financial struggles that come with a disability, you then have twice. And it can come with lots of challenges that make life a little harder, but also with a lot of benefits that outweigh that again. So I think it really depends. It depends on the person, it depends on the disability.

Jacqueline Child: I don't think you really know until you try. It's such a subjective, and I was going to say, someone could be having a really high pain day, and then let's say your non-disabled partner might come home and they hate their job, and so every night they are in the worst mood. So there's just so many different variables that can affect a person, and all of our personalities are different.

Karina Sturm: You can come marry us.

Amy Zayed: Yeah, exactly. I think you come and marry us, then.

Jacqueline Child: Yeah, we'll adopt, or we can adopt you, whatever.

Amy Zayed: We're very happy to be adopted by you.

Alexa Child: Great.

Karina Sturm: If you'd like to.

Alexa Child: Experience, you gotta do, you have to do. It's worth exploring and communicating and then figuring out what works and what doesn't work.

Karina Sturm: I think we are pretty much at the end of this podcast, but I do want to end it on the most positive note. So share your favorite love stories that came out of Dateability with us.

Jacqueline Child: All right. One of my favorite love stories is a couple who matched last year, in 2025, and they have just been completely in love ever since. He has a form of muscular dystrophy, and she deals with psychiatric illness that is now in remission. But obviously those will always be lifelong struggles. Their diagnoses are so different, and they also live in different parts of the country, like a few states away. But they have managed to make it work. They talk all the time, they see each other all the time, they find ways to travel to each other. Their families have met. They are just so incredibly in love, and also really excited and proud about their love story, which is really fun to see. It's really fun to see her, as someone invisibly disabled, someone with psychiatric disabilities, really proudly share her relationship with a physically disabled man.

I really enjoy seeing that.

Alexa Child: I have a lot, and obviously the wedding that we had in February, our first married couple, is a favorite, but I think my favorite is an older couple. They're both in their sixties. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's, and then she was not born disabled, she was in a cycling accident in her fifties that left her with some spinal cord issues. And so she spent about eight years adjusting to her new reality, and then Dateability launched. She went on some dates and didn't click with anybody, but it really helped get her feet wet, get back out there, figure out what she was looking for, and her new dating identity as a disabled woman. And they ended up matching, and they have been together ever since. And now it's been a couple years. Their disabilities and needs really complement each other well. His dexterity, like small movements, maybe with cooking, that's where he struggles, and she has no issue with that. But driving long distances for her is really hard, but not for him, so he's able to drive. And so they really do complement each other. I'm 36, and so that's not old at all, but I do think that as I get older and I enter my forties, more people will receive diagnoses that leave them chronically ill or disabled. And I think it's an important reminder that you're never too old to find love, and you're never too old to give up on finding love.

Amy Zayed: That's exactly, a wonderful note. I love this.

Karina Sturm: I think that was the perfect end statement. I'm just leaving it at there.

Amy Zayed: Yeah, of course. Absolutely.

Karina Sturm: Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We obviously link to your app in the show notes, and yeah, I'm very, very looking forward to seeing what the future holds for you. I hope you'll be very successful. And Amy, you try the dating app and then tell me about it.

Amy Zayed: I'll definitely, I think you might have now convinced me, guys. Thank you so much. I really wish you all the success in the world. I think it's an amazing idea, and you guys are amazing. You sound lovely.

Alexa Child: Oh, thank you so much.